| George
Barwood |
Whenever I watch the Olympics / Althetics World Championships I am always irritated by how the UK hopefuls seem to run wide rather than round the inside. Especially when the commentator goes on about what a brilliant "position" they are in, just before they get left trailing in last. Anyway... It is quite clear that if a runner runs 1 metre wide, each lap he has to run an extra 2pi metres. I can also see that this holds for any simple, convex, closed curve made up of a finite number of straights and circular arcs. The "outer track" corresponds to points not inside the curve which are 1m distant from some point of the inner curve. What is not clear to me is what other classes of curves the result holds for. Clearly convexity is not essential, although the outer track might then intersect itself, I think that complication could be dealt with. But what about other curves? For example would an ellipse give the same result? Would just about any "smoothish" curve do? |
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| George
Barwood |
> The "outer track" corresponds to points not inside the curve which are 1m distant from some point of the inner curve. Hmm.. that's not quite right. I guess I should form the convex shape (hull?) first, then take the boundary of that. Not sure how to forumlate the non-convex case. |
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| Andrew
Fisher |
For any continuous path, if you write r1 for the number of radians you turn anticlockwise and r2 for the number of radians you turn clockwise, I strongly suspect that the outer track is of length |r1 - r2 | more than the inner track. This sounds like a further analysis (or perhaps complex methods) question to me. I don't think it is that complicated a result. Come on David... |
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| George
Barwood |
> I don't think it is that complicated a result. I agree, if it can be formulated correctly. Mind you the Jordan curve theorem is not a complicated result, but the proof is not easy! I now think the motion should be parameterized by the runners velocity and rate of turn (angular velocity), say v(t) and w(t). Then the UK runners motion V,W is described by W(t) = w(t) V(t) = v(t) + k W(t) So he keeps up on the turns, and we specify initial conditions so that he is always 1m distant from the inner runner. If V(t) is negative, I guess he is running backwards. Hum.. I think I now understand the situation intuitively, but maybe don't quite have the maths technique to give a proper rigorous proof of the result. The question is my own by the way, it has not come from and exam/textbook whatever. |
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| David
Loeffler |
I suspect this result is, in fact, false. Suppose the nasty foreign runner runs along the curve , so their position at time is . Of course this supposes that the runner can run infinitely fast, but that's not the point! Suppose now that there is a UK runner who always keeps level with the foreign runner and one metre to their right. Then the UK runner's position at time is given by , where is a unit vector perpendicular to the velocity vector of the foreign runner . So we'd better have . So the curve described by the UK runner is Suppose that ; then the UK runner's position is |
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| David
Loeffler |
which reduces down to (unsurprisingly, since is the direction the foreign runner is heading in at time ). Meanwhile the foreign runner is at . Now let's do some calculus. Hold on while I get a pen and paper; I can't do this stuff straight on the keyboard. |
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| David
Loeffler |
I gave up in disgust on finding that the integrals were too nasty, and fed it to my computer. As theta tends to pi/2, so the runners have run themselves out to infinity and turned to the left by a factor of pi/2, the difference between the distances they have run tends to 0.6393384862, which is not pi/2. The problem with this is that there are two components to the second runner's velocity (if s/he is keeping up with the first runner). One is equal to the first runner's linear velocity, and the other is governed by his/her angular velocity. If the path of the first runner is an arc of a circle or a straight line, these components are parallel, so the total speed s/he is running at adds up as expected, and Andrew's conjecture is true. However, in general this is not the case, and Andrew's formula holds as an upper bound. Hope I have been able to shed some light on this. Thank you; it is a nice question and was certainly a great deal more interesting than the revision that I really ought to be doing. David |
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| Andrew
Fisher |
Is my conjecture true for finite tracks (which I what I was assuming). |
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| George
Barwood |
I still feel it ought to hold for reasonably behaved curves (of course I may be 100% wrong). Suppose we pick points on the inner curve so that when joined we have a chain of n equal length lines. We approximate the outer track with equal length parallel lines (that are each the opposite side of a rectange of height 1m), and join the gaps with circular arcs. As n increases, doesn't the difference tend to the result we want? Sorry this is hopelessly vague and quite probably wrong. |
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| David
Loeffler |
If it worked for finite tracks in the form Andrew proposed above, it would in this case be true for finite sectors of a parabola. Letting the cutoff point tend to infinity the distance turned tends to pi/2 so it would have to work for this case as well. George, your algorithm almost works, but there's no guarantee that as the length of the subdivisions of the inner curve tends to zero, the outer curve will tend to the right value. The problem is that the positions of points on the outer curve are determined by both the value of the function defining the first curve and its first derivative . Try taking a section of a parabola (as I did above) and subdividing it into line segments. Take several different values for the size of the subdivisions and see what happens to the outer curve. David |
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| Peter
Conlon |
After crunching my way through partial derivatives, I seem to have proved that the conjecture that the outer track is [the number of radians turned through] longer than the inner track is true. (Which David's computer calculation contradicts) I suspect my "proof" is flawed, and assumes the result implicitly somewhere within it. Anyway. Once I write it up in a legible fashion, I'll post it, some time this afternoon probably, and if anyone has got time away from revision (...that reminds me...) it would be nice to know what people think. Peter |
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| David
Loeffler |
I attempted a proof along those lines myself, hit a difficulty I thought couldn't be resolved, and decided to look for a counterexample. However in retrospect the difficulty is not insurmountable, so the result is true and my counterexample must be wrong. Suppose we identify the plane with , so the inner runner's path is specified by the continuously differentiable function . Then if the two runners are always level, the position of the second runner at time is where argument of . So the velocity (a 2-vector identified with a complex number) of the second runner at time is . These two components are now parallel, since and hence is real. (We probably need to assume is increasing here.) So thespeed is just and the integral of this along the curve is the length of the first runner's pathplus the change in . Oh dear. Now I'd bettergo and look for the mistake. David |
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| David
Loeffler |
Grr. There is a spurious minus sign. The second runner's position is .I had it down as .That'll teach me to put too much faith in my formulae. I thought it was a bit suspicious, but I reacted by assuming it was a counterintuitive but true result rather than checking my calculations carefully as I ought to have done. Exercise for the reader: for the corrected position function above, the velocity is ![]() and the speed is thus ,while the speed of the first runner is just .So by time T the second runner has run exactly Delta theta further than the first, as we know must necessarily happen. I apologise for attempting to mislead you all about this. (This really doesn't bode well for my exams on Monday!) David |
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| David
Loeffler |
The sharp-eyed will have noticed by now the suspicious step in the above proof. I used the derivative of ; there is no guarantee that this exists at all since I only assumed that was once continuously differentiable. We can get away with assuming that is once continuously differentiable everywhere and twice differentiable except at finitely many points. This certainly covers all designs I've seen for stadium tracks. We also need to assume that at points where it reverses its curvature the radius of curvature is at least 1, or the second runner ends up running backwards, which is rather unrealistic. I think it may be possible to get away with an arbitrary once continuously differentiable curve by approximating it with a sequence of curves , each of which is twice continuously differentiable, and such that and (both uniformly). Neither of these alone implies the other, which is why George's piecewise-linear approximation argument doesn't quite work as far as I can see (it's at least not obvious to me that the second should occur in this case). I'm fairly sure that such a sequence always exists. David |
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| Peter
Conlon |
I don't think I'll bother posting my version. It's a lot uglier, basically using brute force to show that the path difference is equal to the angle turned through. Lots of differentiation. Very boring. Peter |
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| Andrew
Fisher |
The start and finish lines of the boat race are parallel. Unless I am misunderstanding something, this means that the two crews (assuming they are a fixed distance apart) travel the same distance (contrary to the suggestions by the press every year). Any comments? |
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| James
Cranch |
The boat race teams most certainly don't keep the same distance apart. In particular, one bunch of rowers usually tries to brain the other bunch of rowers with an oar. |
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| James
Cranch |
The following struck me: An alternative proof of Dave and Peter's result could be obtained if for any smooth closed curve C there was a set of curves C1 , C2 ,... made up of arcs of circles and line segments such that the Ci approximated C uniformly in both distance and tangent direction. I think it is "obvious" that there is such an approximation. |
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| David
Loeffler |
Why? |
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| James
Cranch |
Well, pick N equally spaced points along the curve C. Any non-violent way of assigning lines or arcs of circles between these points (say, such that each has total curve less than pi/2) approximates the curve in position quite well. We can then pick the angles with relative freedom to ensure a good approximation of tangent directions. Then send N to infinity. I'll have a think whether I could actually make it rigorous. |
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| George
Barwood |
> I apologise for attempting to mislead you all about this Not at all David, thank you for your proof. I think something similar ( but using vectors rather than complex numbers ) was what I had in mind, I agree my attempted proof is rather pathetic. I think a (much?) more difficult job would be a proof (or counterexample!) for an arbitrary simple, convex, rectifiable inner curve, where the outer curve is defined as the set of points distant 1m from the inner curve, and outside it. [ Here I mean a point is 1m distant from the inner curve iff the closest point on the inner curve is 1m away ]. Good luck with your exam, I hope I haven't distracted you too much. George |