Taking roots to find extra values of eiπ ?


By Brad Rodgers (P1930) on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 01:09 am :

We know from Euler's eix formula that eiπ =-1. But, we also know that ei2π =1, so why can't we take the two away using roots, and get eiπ =1 or -1? Similarly, why can't we say ei4π =1, and use the fourth root to get 4 answers? Why can't we do this an infinite amount of times and get an infinite number of answers? I know we could say we can't do this because of contradiction, but what is the reason for the contradiction?
Brad


By Anonymous on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 12:40 pm :

This is like saying, suppose x = -1, then x2 = 1. If we now take roots we find x = +-1, so -1 = 1 or -1. Then we can consider xn = 1 and there are n roots for x and similarly we could do this an infinite number of times and get an infinite number of answers for -1.


By Olof Sisask (P3033) on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:12 pm :

You just have to remember that some operations aren't reversible (ok the wording isn't right there, but I can't think of the proper term).

Regards,
Olof.


By Anonymous on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:20 pm :

When we solve xn = -1 we look for complex numbers x which satisfy the equation.

eiπ is a complex number x which satisfies x2 =-1. This does not mean all other complex numbers such numbers x are equal to eiπ .
A similar argument might go...

Let S be the set of all people. My mum is a person therefore she is in S, therefore every person is my mum.


By Brad Rodgers (P1930) on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 09:53 pm :

I see. But, then, what significance does eiπ have if there are an infinite other number of ways to evaluate eiπ (all of which are different)) Is it just because that solution is a more "natural" solution that we usually use it with it? Is it just easier to work with?
Brad


By Anonymous on Friday, February 16, 2001 - 10:18 pm :

There is not an infinite number of ways of evaluating eiπ . eiπ =-1 is well defined (start talking about log on the complex numbers and you have a point).
There are n unique solutions to the equation xn = -1. Do not confuse the two statements.


By Brad Rodgers (P1930) on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 01:49 am :

I'm not sure that's what I'm saying, though. If
ei2nπ =1, Then ei2nπ/2n = eiπ = 11/2n . Of course, -1 is one solution to this, but it is not the only. It is the only that will appear no matter what n is (unless it's 0). Perhaps I'm not understanding though (and that very could be the case)...


By James Lingard (Jchl2) on Saturday, February 17, 2001 - 07:49 am :

Sorry Brad, but this is *exactly* analogous to the example given by the first Anonymous post, i.e.

1n = 1, so 1n/n = 1 = 11/n , so there are n different values for 1!

The problem is that you assume (an )1/n = a, when it doesn't necessarily.

James.


By Brad Rodgers (P1930) on Sunday, February 18, 2001 - 09:23 pm :

I see now. Thanks to Olof, James, and Anon. Sorry if I sounded rude earlier-if I did it was solely because of a lack of comprehension on my part. Thanks once again,

Brad