[Editor: This thread is largely unedited.
See David's
site for an explanation and proof of the above asymptotic
expression which is discussed in this thread.]
By Brad Rodgers on Saturday, July 14, 2001
- 12:27 am:
Is there a formula for
...(1)
I've developed an algorithm for finding these using
differentiation of the identity
but I can't find a closed form, and the algorithm gets to be very
tedious.
Also, what is the value of
...(2)
and
...(3)
Thanks,
Brad
By Brad Rodgers on Saturday, July 14, 2001
- 03:01 am:
Also, I have the conjecture that
is integer for all natural x, and is not prime for any even x.
Any ideas on how to prove this?
Brad
By David Loeffler on Tuesday, July 17,
2001 - 01:07 am:
Hmm. It does seem to be divisible by 3 in all the examples my
computer has produced so far. (Note that if x=14 the sum is 3 x
3547114323481, and the latter is prime.)
There does exist a neat proof that it is always an
integer.
Let
. Then define the operator
- that is, for any function
we have
.
We have
,
,
etc.
(An operator is a sort of meta-function which acts on functions. So
differentiation is an operator, as is taking Fourier transforms and all sorts
of other weird notions.)
So your series is
evaluated at
.
Now consider the terms in the sequence of functions
. The first is
, the second
, etc.
All take the form
, where
is a polynomial in
with
integer coefficients and degree at most
. We shall prove this by induction
on
. It is true for
and 2 (work these out if you want).
Suppose
is of this form. Then
Since
is of degree
, as is
, and both have integer
coefficients, the numerator of this has integer coeffs and is of degree at most
, as required. (We can in fact prove, by an easy extension of this
induction, that it is of degree precisely
and has leading coefficient 1;
but this is not relevant.)
Anyway, let's now put
. We have
with
. This is
.
Now, the polynomial
is a sum of terms all of the form
where
is at most
, as the polynomial itself is of degree at most
.
So when the numerator is multiplied by
, this is
and all
of the terms become integers, since the
are integers. So
times the numerator is an integer.
However, the denominator is
, so this value -
times the
numerator - is the value of the fraction. Which is therefore an integer. QED.
(You may like to extend this to show that it is an odd integer; you will need
the fact that the leading coefficient of
is precisely 1.)
I will have a good look at the "divisible by 3" bit!
David
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 10:12 am:
I just noticed if you do a bit of manipulation, then Brad's
sum (the one in the second message) is also given by the finite
double summation:
Notice that x-m-n is never negative during the summation. This
now makes it clear that Brad's sum is integral if n is
natural.
Maybe this alternate form can be used to prove David's multiple
of 3 conjecture.
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 11:35 am:
And it also follows pretty quickly from the double sum that it
is an odd integer. (The only odd terms in the double sum occur
when n = x-m.)
Now for multiples of 3. If x is even then nx = 0 (mod
3) if n is a multiple of 3, and nx = 1 (mod 3)
otherwise. Reducing the sum mod 3 we get:
where the sum is now taken over values of n which are not
multiples of 3.
Now consider
where the sum is taken over values of n which aren't multiples of
3. If x-m is a multiple of 3 or one fewer than a multiple of 3,
the sum is 0. If x-m is one more than a multiple of 3 then the
sum is (-1)x-m which is (-1)m since x is
even. So our original sum reduced mod 3 is:
where the sum is taken over terms in which x-m = 1 (mod 3).
In other words our sum mod 3 is:
[C(x+1,x-1) - C(x+1,x-4) + C(x+1,x-7) - ...]
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 12:43 pm:
There's a sign error in the last line. The sum mod 3 should be
minus what it currently is. (Since (-1)x-1 = -1.)
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 02:48 pm:
So to establish David's conjecture we must prove that when x
is even C(x+1,x-1) - C(x+1,x-4) + ... is a multiple of 3. This is
the same as:
C(x+1,2) - C(x+1,5) + C(x+1,8) - C(x+1,11) + ... (*)
because C(n,r) = C(n,n-r).
In fact the expression is a multiple of 3 whether x is even or
odd. First note that if x = 0 or 2 (mod 3) then every term in the
sum is a multiple of 3. To prove this, write each term in the sum
in the form 3p/q C(m,r) where p,q,r are integers with p,q not
multiples of 3 and 3m = x+1 or 3m = x (depending on the mod 3
residue of x). Since C(m,r) is an integer it follows each term is
a multiple of 3, so this is enough to establish David's
conjecture for x = 0 or 2 (mod 3).
If x = 1 (mod 3) write x = 3m + 1. Then note that we have:
C(x+1,2+3r) = C(m,r) (mod 3)
So (*) becomes:
C(m,0) - C(m,1) + C(m,2) - ... = 0
showing that (*) is always 0 (mod 3) which establishes David's
conjecture.
There's almost certainly a better way of doing all this but I
can't see how. There are probably lots of mistakes/unclear parts
here, so please point them out!
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 03:42 pm:
I just came across a discussion in the archive that looks
related:
Utterly
Baffling Infinite Series
Note that we can generalise my first message to find a finite
double summation for:
It is:
providing of course that the first sum converges.
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 17, 2001 - 10:06 pm:
OK, that's slightly wrong - the r-x bit should be
(1 - 1/r)x and there are probably more errors in the
latest double sum. I will try and post the correct version in the
morning when I'm a bit less tired. The double sum in my first
message is correct though.
By David Loeffler on Tuesday, July 17,
2001 - 10:46 pm:
It is possible to do an alternative proof of the divisibility
part by noting a curious property of the polynomials p(z) that
occur in the numerators. They are all z*q(z) where q(z) is
symmetric (in the sense that the leading coefficient is equal to
the constant coefficient etc.). The degree of q is odd when x is
an even integer, and it follows that if x is odd (1+z) is a
factor of q(z); so q(-1) = 0. However we can show quite easily by
doing things with congruences that 2x-1 q(1/2), which
is the value of the sum, is congruent to q(-1) mod 3. So we see
that the sum is congruent to 0 mod 3 for all even x.
(This is just a very brief sketch; the full proof would take
several pages to write out.)
Incidentally, sorry for the pathetic mistake in my first post. For
read
, etc. (I was also
rather tired...)
David
By David Loeffler on Tuesday, July 17,
2001 - 10:56 pm:
By the way, a slightly weirder conjecture: for large x, it
looks rather like
is asymptotic to
Anybody got any idea how on earth we prove this?
David
By Michael Doré on Wednesday, July 18, 2001 - 10:21 am:
I have now computed the finite double summation correctly (I
hope). In David's notation it is:
,
This can of course be used to analytically continue S(x) for z
> 1.
To prove the double sum, just write out the series for S(x) then
consider:
S(x)[1 - z C(x+1,1) + z2 C(x+1,2) - z3
C(x+1,3) + ... + (-1)x+1 zx+1 C(x+1,x+1)]
(*)
Multiply it out, then collect up terms of the form zm
. Then note that the coefficients of zx+1
,zx+2 ,... are all 0 because of the result:
which is easily proved by induction on n.
We also know that (*) is S(x) (1 - z)x+1 and on
equating the two results we obtain the finite double sum.
I don't know whether this result is going to help us prove
David's latest conjecture.
By Michael Doré on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 12:09 am:
By the way David's conjecture is equivalent to showing that
for any t then:
where
is a contour enclosing 0 but not
for any integral
.
I don't know if that's going to be helpful either. I'll write the
proof of the equivalence in the morning if anyone's interested.
By David Loeffler on Thursday, July 19,
2001 - 01:23 pm:
Please do - I presume it has something to do with
residues!
By Michael Doré on Thursday, July 19, 2001 - 01:49 pm:
Yes, in fact that's a good point. My statement is equivalent
to saying that as x-> infinity the residue at 0 of the
function t/(zx (1 - e(z-t) t)) tends to 1.
I still don't see how to prove this...
Here's the proof of the equivalence of David's conjecture, and
the contour integral result. We want to show:
Substitute
. We want to prove that for
:
This is the same as:
Now if we switch to applied maths mode, we can swap the sum and differential
operator.
[I think we can justify this step rigorously since each term is monotonic.]
So anyway we desire to prove that:
(*)
where the derivative on the left hand side is evaluated at
. (This is
probably an abuse of notation.)
Now Cauchy's integral formula states that if
is analytic within and on a
closed contour
then if
is inside
:
(In other words it tells us that if we know everything about an analytic
function on the edge of a contour, then we can deduce the value of the function
(and its derivatives) anywhere inside the contour.)
Let
. We know that the
th derivative of
at
is given by:
So you substitute this back into (*) and replace
with
you get the
integral I gave in my last message.
I don't know if this method is leading anywhere, but it seemed like a good idea
at the time since the
cancelled from both sides. I can't seem to find a
clever way to incorporate the
condition to find the limit of the
integral.
By David Loeffler on Thursday, July 19,
2001 - 03:37 pm:
Just thought I'd foul everything up a bit:
what's to stop us letting x be non-integral?
By David Loeffler on Thursday, July 19,
2001 - 11:04 pm:
I've just realised: this problem boils down to finding the
power series expansion of a/(a-ex ) for integer a. The
kth derivative of this at zero is
Now this looks eerily familiar: if we put a=1 we get the
generating function of the Bernoulli numbers (more or less). (So
now we see where the link between Bernoulli numbers and the zeta
function comes from.)
This suggests that we have hit a very hard problem.
So, does anyone know an asymptotic formula for B(k)? If so we
could possibly adapt the proof to this problem.
I will have a look on the web and see what I can find but with a
university library at his back Michael is probably better
placed!
David
By David Loeffler on Thursday, July 19,
2001 - 11:18 pm:
Err -
is about
, but as far as I can tell
this is no use at all - it is proved by using the formula for
in
terms of
and then rearranging and using the estimate
.
Since we have no such handy relations to work with for the coefficients of
, there is no obvious route to take.
By Michael Doré on Friday, July 20, 2001 - 10:01 pm:
I don't actually use the university library very much (it's a
long way away and looks like a prison!) but the college library
usually has plenty of stuff to keep everyone entertained. Anyway,
I'm at home now, but I may drop by Imperial Library in a couple
of days, so I'll see if I can find anything out.
Yes, I don't think the contour integral is going to be easier to
evaluate in the limit, so your approach of looking directly at
the Taylor series of a/(a - ex ) looks more promising.
Along these lines I have "proved" David's statement in totally
non-rigorous fashion. I might post the argument later, but it
will be for amusement value only!
By David Loeffler on Saturday, July 21,
2001 - 06:40 pm:
Hmm. Say we let
be the
th coefficient in the Taylor series; I have a
proof that
, but this is obviously
well short of the result we are looking for.
The proof is quite simple and involves applying the ratio test to the series
. The value of
is clearly
, so the series converges only
when this is
. But we know that the nearest singularity of the function
to the origin is at
, so the radius of convergence must be
;
comparing this with the formula above we have
as required.
Is this at all like your "amusement value" proof, Michael, and if
so how can it be extended?
By David Loeffler on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 06:50 pm:
Moving on a little, can we prove any useful relations between
two functions if we know that the coefficients in their Taylor
series are asymptotically equal? My proof above shows that they
both have the same radius of convergence, but this is not really
very useful.
Incidentally, for "limit" read "limit superior" throughout the
above proof.
David
By Michael Doré on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 09:55 pm:
No, my proof isn't anything like that. (Your proof that lim
cn 1/n = 1/ln a is actually rigorous!!) I
have made my "proof" of your original conjecture a little more
rigorous by using complex integration but there's still a very
dodgy step. At best the following shows why your conjecture is
probably true. All pure mathematicians look away now...
Your conjecture is equivalent to:
dx /dtx [1/(et - 1)] ~
(-1)x+1 x!/z0 x+1
where the LHS is evaluated at t = z0 where
z0 > 0.
Using Cauchy's integral formula, we can re-write what we want to
prove as:
We can write what we want to prove as:
Now make the substitution
:
where
is the contour
scaled by a factor of
. But in fact there's
no need to distinguish
and
since they contain the same singularities,
and we may as well replace the dummy variable
by
so that we want to show:
Now comes the dodgy stage.We know that as
,
. So it's reasonable to suppose your
assertion is equivalent to:
or
The only singularity in this contour is at
.
By David Loeffler on Sunday, July 22, 2001
- 09:58 pm:
I have found a proper proof, which I think is rigorous (in
other words I invite criticism):
Let
and
, so
and
. We want to show that the functions
and
have their Taylor coefficients asymptotically equal.
Consider
. As
tends to
, this tends to a limit (1/2)
(this may be easily proved by expanding them in powers of
.)
Hence the Taylor series of
, which has coefficients
, converges at
. So the
th term of this
series tends to zero as
.
But this
th term is
, so
. Hence
, so
is asymptotically
. QED.
Any thoughts?
David
By David Loeffler on Sunday, July 22, 2001
- 10:04 pm:
Hmm... simultaneous posts!
Incidentally, I ran
, that is
through the Inverse Symbolic Calculator page and it didn't even recognise it.
Anybody got any idea how, or rather if, it could be evaluated?
David
By David Loeffler on Sunday, July 22, 2001
- 10:29 pm:
Reading your post, I'm confused by one thing.
You seem to have lost the singular points in your integral! The
function given - (ez/x -1)-1 x-1
ez/z0 - is singular only at 0, which is
outside the contour. I think when you let x sort of tend to
infinity while keeping the same contour, the singularity receded
to infinity and got lost. I presume that is why you abandoned
your post halfway through!
By Michael Doré on Sunday, July 22, 2001 - 10:55 pm:
Oops lost the rest of my post. It wasn't because I abandoned
it though; I'll re-write the last bit tomorrow.
Regarding your proof: I agree that lim(z-> ln a) f(z) - g(z)
exists. But how does that show that the Taylor series of f(z) -
g(z) converges at z = ln a? Sorry if this is obvious, I'll have
another look tomorrow.
By David Loeffler on Monday, July 23, 2001
- 09:34 am:
because the function h(z)=f(z)-g(z) is analytic in a region
containing z=ln a? I'm not sure about this point.
Regarding your post, I think you've ignored uniform convergence.
As x increases 1/( 1 - z/(z0 (x+1) )x+1
converges pointwise to ez/z0 but not
uniformly, so its integral does not necessarily converge to the
integral of the limit function.
By Michael Doré on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 10:15 am:
What about 1/(1 + x)? This is certainly analytic in a region
containing x = 1, and lim(x-> 1)1/(x+1) exists yet the Taylor
expansion doesn't converge at x = 1, and the successive
coefficients don't -> 0...
The problem you outline in the second paragraph is precisely the
reason it is non-rigorous. I was hoping the fact it wasn't
uniformly continuous doesn't matter since it was being multiplied
by a function tending to 0. I really have no idea how to justify
that stage.
By Michael Doré on Monday, July 23, 2001 - 12:09 pm:
Sorry, in the first paragraph I meant to say the successive
terms don't -> 0 in the Taylor series of 1/(1 + x) at x =
1.
By David Loeffler on Monday, July 23,
2001 - 12:32 pm:
Yes, but
has a discontinuity 1 away from the origin at
. In
, by removing the discontinuity at
, we have created a
function with no discontinuities nearer the origin than
,
which is also analytic so its Taylor series has radius of convergence
.
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 09:32 pm:
Aha! So (just to check) is the following guarenteed?
If a function f(z) is analytic within a circle centre a, radius r
then f(z) can be written as a Taylor series about z = a, and the
series is guarenteed to converge at each point inside the
circle.
I did hear something to this effect, but I didn't know the exact
condition.
If this is right then that's an extremely clever proof. What made
you think of it?
Regarding my original attempt, it is not too hard to finish it
off from there. Substitute t = e-z/(x+1) which puts
the singularity at the origin and makes the contour finite. Then
take (wlog) z0 to be a multiple of x+1, expand the
function about the origin and you obtain the answer upon applying
the residue theorem. But you're right, the step where I take the
limit is not at all rigorous and all my attempts to justify the
limit swapping have failed, so it's better to stick to your
proof.
By Michael Doré on Tuesday, July 24, 2001 - 09:37 pm:
Actually the more I think about it the more ridiculous my
whole "proof" seems. Effectively I have replaced z with z/(x+1)
then replaced this with z again, taking the opportunity (in the
intermediate stage) to swap two limits. Effectively I have
replaced (1 - x)n by e-nx for large x,
which while being of the correct order of magnitude, can't easily
be justified. Let's just forget that posting :)
By David Loeffler on Tuesday, July 24,
2001 - 11:43 pm:
Yes, that is the condition for the convergence of Taylor
series. It's a wonderful theorem and provides all sorts of neat
results, and allows you to write down immediately the radius of
convergence of any Taylor series of an analytic function (and
non-analytic functions don't have sensible taylor series at
all!)
As for how I thought of my proof, it was more or less the obvious
extension of my comment about the relationship between functions
when they have asymptotic Taylor coefficients: I plotted
2/(2-ex ) and 1/(ln(2)-x) and noticed that they
approached each other as they neared the singularity at ln
2.
By the way, I still don't see how your integral can avoid being
zero. But I've forgotten about it already ;-)
David
By Brad Rodgers on Wednesday, July 25,
2001 - 09:06 pm:
Would it be possible to evaluate David's above sum (of
sqrt(n)/2n ) using fractional calculus?
We know that
Differentiate this b times (b being any real number) We are
given
(the differentiation of m/1-m should be a relatively easy task)
Now we want for
Or m to some other power. Any ideas...
Brad